Sunday, March 15, 2009

Strike up the band, it’s time to start dancin’

Now that the last student has left the court after a post game celebration, and the tears have been shed after a bubble was burst, the brackets have been selected, now let the rhetoric begin. Which bubble team got snubbed San Diego St., St. Mary's? Who should not have gotten in, Arizona? How did the Big-10 get 7 teams in? Memphis is the returning National Finalist and only lost THREE games, how are they not a number one? How do you think the bracket should have looked? Talk about it here and in the NCAA Tournament Chat rooms.

Midwest Region

1 Louisville - 16 Alabama St/Morehead St
8 Ohio State - 9 Siena
5 Utah - 12 Arizona
4 Wake Forest - 13 Cleveland St
6 West Virginia - 11 Dayton
3 Kansas - 14 North Dakota St.
7 Boston College - 10 USC
2 Michigan St. - 15 Robert Morris
West Region

1 UCONN - 16 Chattanooga
8 BYU - Texas A & M
5 Purdue - 12 Northern Iowa
4 Washington - 13 Mississippi St.
6 Marquette - 13 Utah State
3 Missouri - 14 Cornell
7 California - 10 Maryland
2 Memphis - 15 Cal State Northridge
East Region

1 Pittsburgh - 16 Eastern Tenn State U
8 Oklahoma St - 9 Tennessee
5 Florida St. - 12 Wisconsin
4 Xavier - 13 Portland St.
6 UCLA - 11 VCU
3 Villanova - 14 American University
7 Texas - 10 Minnesota
2 Duke - 15 Binghamton
South Region

1 North Carolina - 16 Radford
8 LSU - 9 Butler
5 Illinois - 12 Western Kentucky
4 Gonzaga - 13 Akron
6 Arizona St - 11 Temple
3 Syracuse - 14 Stephen F. Austen
7 Clemson - 10 Michigan
2 Oklahoma - 15 Morgan State


rwattsunc13 said...

There is no way the Big Ten should get 8 teams into the field. Absolutely no way. The Big Ten vs. the ACC or the Big East gets destroyed (and did in the ACC/Big Ten Challenge).

Additionally, Michigan State, at Ford Field in Detroit, got routed by Carolina by 35! In fact, for the first month of the year, MSU was terribly inconsistent. Only when they got to the Big Ten schedule did things start looking up because the Big Ten is soft. Everytime I watch the Big Ten, I am amazed by the sloppy play.

Stats wise, the Big Ten has 8 teams that fit the bill... I'm not sure how that happened because all 8 are not among the Committee's key characteristic of the "nation's best 65 teams."

But once again, it looks like the Big Ten will swindle it's way into more than what they deserve. And, if you have to put 8 teams into the field, MSU is not a one seed. Even though Oklahoma and Pitt lost, neither one of them got blown out by 35 at any point in the season (by a team who was without two key players at that).

Does anyone else see the light?

illini1279 said...

Actually the ACC/Big Ten challenge was close (for once) -- 6-5 --- Illinois makes a shot at the buzzer -- Big Ten wins 6-5.

I agree -- Big Ten is more mediocre -- but more balanced -- no great teams -- other than MSU -- but a lot of good teams.

I guarantee a lot of teams would not want to play Penn State or Michigan in the tourney.

brUtUs said...

Yeah if you consider 6-5 in ACC/Big 10 Challenge getting destroyed, then you make a good point. IDIOT!! My god, let the Carolina game go. You should know that teams have off nights. Besides, early non-conference games are irrelevant unless you are a bubble team. Oklahoma has now lost 4 of 6, in a down Big 12. Also they beat one team all year that is currently ranked in the top 25 (Purdue in OT). I can't argue Pitt, cuz i think they deserve a 1, but to say Michigan State does not is stupid. They are a nation's best 11-2 vs RPI top 50. I am not even a MSU fan, i just give them credit where credit is do. Also, quit hating on the Big 10. It just gets old how people dog the Big 10, when they have clearly been top 2 in RPI all year long. If you are going to put the Big 10 down, than come with some better facts.

thehuntman said...

As far as MSU's 11-2 record vs RPI top 50, who cares. Honestly when trying to pick a #1 seed I think record should count and a good schedule also which MSU's is pretty good. The one thing that keeps them out of a 1 seed is they beat no team that will be a 1-2 seed in the tournament. Their next best win was against teams fighting for 5-8 slots in the tourney. Top 50 record is okay to look at but for top seeds I think top 25 RPI is much more important and top 10 RPI even more important. You should have to show you have won against top 1-2 seeds and should have a couple of those wins in my opinion. Pitt, North Carolina, and Connecticut have great records and also a couple big wins each to top 1-2 seed type teams. I don't see why anyone would rank a team with more loses over any of those 3 teams. The 4th #1 seed is a good fight and MSU should be in that discusion with Louisville. Oklahoma and Memphis should not even be considered for a #1 because neither team beat any team that is going to be seeded 1-3 in the tournament. If your best win is a 10 loss Tennessee (Memphis best win) who will be a 6-8 type seed then why should you be considered for a #1 seed. Oklahoma's best win also is against a team that will be at best a 4 seed so why should they be a #1 seed when they have not proven they can even beat a top 1-3 seed team? Louisville would be my choice because they beat Pitt but that was at home which does not make it as impressive but atleast they beat a #1 type seeded team and they also beat Villanova who will be a #2-3 seed. MSU's best win was to Kansas which will be a #3 seed so I would still keep them as a 2 seed if both Louisville and MSU win their tournaments. MSU does not have to beat any top 1-4 type seeded teams to win their tournament because the 2nd best team in the Big 10 will be a 5 seed at best so the edge goes to Louisville if they both win the tournaments.

bTEN08 said...

I can agree that Michigan State does not deserve a number 1 seed (with that 35 point loss to UNC being a big factor). But to say the other teams from the Big 10 don't deserve a chance is a little harsh. And to say that the ACC demolished the Big 10 this year in the challenge is idiotic (Believe it was 5-4). Big 10 had some nice wins out of conference as well.

I would definitely say the ACC's top 5 is a heck of a lot stronger that the Big 10's top 5.

But my question to you is: Who else are you going to put in the tournament in place of a team? 18-14 notre dame? 18-13 Virginia tech? 18-12 Miami?

paintcrew24 said...

I guess down in the south with the ACC folk, 6 is like 10x more than 5 because that was the BIG TEN/ACC challenge outcome!!! Man these guys just won't quit!!! Listen ACC fans... the Big Ten probably shouldn't get 8 teams, but less than 7 would be an outrage also!!! The Big Ten has one elite team in Michigan St. followed by Purdue as a very good team and throw Ill. in there too. Then you have teams that can win a game in the tourney like OSU, Wisky, Michigan. Then there is Penn St. and Minn who could upset someone in the first round. That's 8 teams and if Minn gets crushed by Michigan St. then I think the B10 gets 7 bids. As for you saying the Big Ten will swindle its way into getting more bids then they deserve, you must have a very short memory (likely if you're a ACC fan) because the Big Ten only had 4 teams last year. Typical uneducated ACC fan not doing their research about another conference and only caring about their own!!!

show27 said...

Typical Big Ten venom.

You cherry-pick things to make your case, but conveniently ignore other items ... such as, Big Ten has the #2 Conference RPI, only trailing the ACC. That means, yes, it's ahead of the media's beloved Big East. You bring up the Challenge (which, as has already been pointed out, was very close) as some sort of blowout. You bring up MSU getting destroyed by Carolina. I'm not sure what that even means, because no one is arguing MSU get a top seed OVER UNC. They are both slated to get one.

You also ignored MSU easily handling Kansas, Northwestern beating Florida State (and they are the Big Ten's 9th best team), Michigan splitting with Duke, beating UCLA, and hanging right with UConn on the road. Minnesota beat Louisville on a neutral court. There's more, but I don't want to look anything up ... this was just off the top of my head.

Illinois, Penn State, Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State have all won at least six games against the RPI top 50. No other conference can boast this many teams who can stake this claim. MSU has 12 wins of this variety, and that's the most in the nation.

Finally, you didn't provide any alternative to giving the Big Ten eight bids. If they don't deserve that many, who should be out? Who should replace them? You can't just say "that's too many," without elaborating. Otherwise you just sound uneducated.

Then again, maybe you are.

tigertruth said...

Thank you smacchat for questioning why Memphis is not a top seed. No one else seems to think they should be, so just a little statistics for all of the Tiger haters across the ignorant basketball country:

this year Memphis played 4 Big East teams (beat Seton Hall and Cincy, lost in OT @8th ranked Georgetown and to 11th ranked Syracuse at home,) and an early neutral site loss to Xavier. We beat the Vols and Siena at home and the Zags in Seattle, scheduled purposely during conference play. Plus, unlike so many "elite" teams, we took care of business in our tourney.
And since you clearly don't understand how conferences work, let me explain: Memphis would love to be in a "Major" conference. When the Big East decided to demolish CUSA, Memphis made a bid, but they chose to go with teams like DePaul, Marquette, and USF over Memphis. And the SEC won't have us because it would mess up football recruiting. So, Calipari makes the best of a less than ideal situation, instead of whining about how unfair it is that the power conferences won't have us. Maybe you have some pull with Tranghese or Slive- perhaps you can put in a nice word for us.
By the way, over the past 3 years, we are 18-8 against the 6 power conferences. That includes wins over teams like UConn, Oklahoma, Texas, Texas A&M, Georgetown, Michigan State, and UCLA. We're not afraid to play anyone, and as long as ignorant people like yourself continue to underestimate the Tigers, you'll make sure the Tigers are playing for the respect that you won't give them.

PGH316 said...

The conference tourament doesn't mean a thing. No one cares about that exibition, it's the whole body of work. Pitt, UConn and NC all palyed in the two toughest conferences and all had only 4 loses. Everyone else in the country except Memphis (who was 2-2 playin the BE and played no one) had more loses. Case closed.

scarletnGrey01 said...

Hoo boy .. if the buckeyes get past the first round, and I think they will ... we'll get to play FREAKIN' LOUISVILLE!!! ARRRG!!! The basketball gods were unkind. This is a classic example of how one seed lower would have made the difference in possibly winning two rounds instead of only one. Hey, no disrespect to Siena BTW, don't know anything about them, they may come out smoking. Anyway ... the only thing I can say is tOSU is one #8 seed that I don't think any team would relish playing, we have at least three future NBA players on the roster (two of them are freshmen and one a sophomore) and the bucks finally seem to be getting it together. But ... don't think Louisville is quaking in their hightops though. :~}

MTigerBlue said...

Memphis getting a #2 was not unexpected by any means. We were going to be in UConn's bracket regardless of which team got the worst #1 and which one got the best #2. But I'll tell you this, if you saw the game between those two teams last year, you saw how Calhoun turned his back on Calipari until the final horn sounded because he didn't want to see that smile on Calipari's face while he was walking toward him and offering him a condolence handshake. This year, he'll probably just head straight for the tunnel, 'cause that smile is going to be ear to ear.

the ville fan said...

i think louisville is gonna win the championship.even though they are the #1 overall seed they still have a chip on their shoulder and they are playin better than anyone right now they went 19-2 against big east teams and they have the best defense in the country oh and TERRENCE WILLIAMS IS BY FAR THE BEST ALL AROUND PLAYER IN THE COUNTRY.

lelkinssniper said...

UNC is one of the most overrated teams in the nation. I would rather see Pitt and UCONN at a #1 than UNC. But that's just me being the way I am. Since everyone else is being biased, I guess I will be too. I enjoy watching college basketball in general. I don't have a favorite team because I enjoy watching everyone play. UNC reminds me of Oklahoma. Without Blake Griffin, Oklahoma is nothing. Without Ty Lawson, UNC is nothing. UNC is overrated and will always be overrated until they step up their game and actually win the championship year after year.

shark1269 said...

MEMPHIS, MEMPHIS, MEMPHIS. I am so tired of hearing about Memphis. They actually got what they deserved. A strong #2 seed. They in noway deserve to have a #1. Conference USA, i'm sorry, is just as weak as the SEC. Yeah Memphis does have 30 wins and the longest winning streak in the nation but WHO DID THEY PLAY???? They have won the conference 4 years in a row. Are they scared to get into a real conference? When Louisville dominated Conference USA they got out and moved into a real conference. It's time for Memphis to move if they want any credit at all, but as long as they stay there they will not get any respect.

nickflow302 said...

I love the Memphis hate and I love that they are getting trashed by "know it all" writers like this. This way if they win, writers and analysts will eat crow (then predictably fall all over themselves jumping on their bandwagon) and doubters will be forced to shut up - again.

I love how they're picking up top high school recruits and are HIGHLY likely to return to the tourney next year.

How ignorant some folks are..Memphis made it to the finals last year and took Kansas to small feat for a team playing in such a "weak" conference. So anyone who's still harping on the weak conference crap lacks perspective when you look at how many times elite, originally high seeded teams DON'T even make it to the final four.

If you want to hate Memphis..feel free, its a free country... but just stop using the tired conference theory already. Its seems like that's been disproved...It seems like you're just unwilling to accept reality.

rayraylives said...

UCONN cuttin' down the nets baby!!

1tarheel4lif said...

I'mpicking the Tar Heels to win it all!!!!.....Surprise d?...I'm not I've been picking them to every year they've been in the Tourny........HEY... I'm like 3 for 30 something....thats better than most :)

rcf said...

Here's some quick analysis I did. Average seed by conference:

Big East: 3 (1, 1, 1, 3, 3, 6, 6)
Big XII: 4.6 (2, 3, 3, 7, 8)
ACC: 5.86 (1, 2, 4, 7, 7, 10, 10)
Big Ten: 7.43 (2, 5, 5, 8, 10, 10, 12)

I can agree with the ACC. The Big Ten and the Big XII should be flipped. Big11Ten got the shaft hard today.

beastlystud said...

UNC will choke as they did alot this year Duke will get to the elite 8 and maybe the final 4. They will need to get the same proformance from schyer , henderson, singler and smith and the 3's must rain

cbishop45 said...

kansas won't make it to the sweet 16, much less win it all. Would have rather seen St. Mary's or Creighton than Wisconsin in the dance. But sure am happy SEC got only 3 in, its a shame Tennessee blew it, or else they'd be stuck at 2.

b10rep said...

It's time for the Big Ten to show people why it EARNED seven bids. Despite the committee's efforts to hurt them (Purdue vs. Washington and Illinois vs. Gonzaga both in Portland???), they have the talent, and team-minded playing style capable of getting some teams deep in the tournament. Time to shut these haters up.

nygkry said...

Radford University becomes the first #16 seed to win.

alexvr18 said...

thats right bc is overrated!!
they will get killed by a usc team that is peaking at the right time
michigan st better watch out too!!!

TheVille' 09 said...

Why isn't anyone talking about Louisville??? We're the number one seed and all i hear is UNC, or UCONN, or PITT. We won the reg season and conf. tourney in the best conf. in the nation! Oh yea, and we the overall top seed in the dance. Small market bias. no worries, come April everyone will have to deal with the fact that the National Champ resides in the state of Kentucky!!!!

Spartan GG1 said...

Hey smacchat, how can you think the Big-10 was the second weakest conference in the nation????? What about the Pac-2 or WAC which is wack??? Get off it! When Michigan State makes it back to the final four I expect an apology to be posted on this site!!

MOAllStater08 said...

1) Can somebody explain to me why the Little...sorry...Big 10 got seven teams in when there were several better at large bigs that diserved it way more than teams such as Michigan and Woosconsin? It makes no sense to me snubbing st.marys or Auburn who have much better resume's in my opinion? I have watched the Big 10 game all year long and the only teams that impress me are Michigan St. and Purdue aint bad

3) As a Mizzou fan, i am very curious as to why OU got a 2 seed in the Oklahoma in the South region and get to play in Kansas City over the tigers, or for that matter the Jayhawks too? I know everybody in the country is infatuated with Blake Griffin but lets look at the facts......OU is 27-5..MU is 28-6......OU's out of conference schedule notable wins included wins vrs Purdue (neutral court), and USC as well as Utah at home....MU's wins include the likes of USC as well on a neutral court and an almost 30 point shallacking of Cal.....MU was 19-4 vrs. conf teams and OU was 17-4 vrs conf teams while MU capped off a Big 12 tourny championship and KU won the regular season...Missouri split the season vrs KU at one game apiece, and handled OU fairly easy at home...OU also failed to beat KU something the tigers terms of consistency, Missouri has been more consistent all year while OU is falling off at the end...please somebody explain/argue this concept with me?

Buckguy2006 said...

C-Usa is not at all a tough confrence it's Memphis has great athletes BUT in a region that boast Maryland,Missouri,Ut ah St,Marquette,Washing ton,Purdue,Byu Texas A&M and Uconn all teams I believe are capable of beating Memphis

D cardsfan said...

Louisville vs. Pitt..National Championship game

dcrumble said...

Hey Smacchat, Just wondering, if you think Arizona shouldn't be in then who should be in instead of Arizona?

If you say Creighton and Saint Marys then you need to pay more attention to things other than W-L record, because not all schedules are created equally. If you are a mid-major, schedule at least ONE quality non-conference game for Christ's sake, or win your freaking conference tournament. Don't do None of the Above and then whine.

carolinapwns said...

I'm looking at LSU's schedule and trying to find a reason that they should concern Carolina. I see one ranked team on their schedule, and that has an "L" next to it courtesy of Xavier. LSU may hang with UNC for a while, but they won't be able to stop our high-octane offense or keep their legs and make shots in the second half. While OU's a good team, they came in second in a weak Big 12 conference (yes, I know they didn't have Blake, but one man does not a title get) and their regular season schedule's almost laughable. I think Capel's an overrated coach and will be shown the door by the first real team he meets in the tourney, probably Syracuse but if not, definitely Carolina.

mark keith said...


datzMRdorsey said...

Right now, it's all about efficiency - not conference pedigree. Remember, we rehashed all this last year? Ken Pomeroy has been pretty much on it. Last year, Memphis at this point was his #2 RPI. Guess who he had as a #1 last year?

This year, he has Memphis at #1. It's stats and paper, but this team has been there over the last two years. Dismiss the #8-10 conference out of 32 all you want. The conference pedigrees won't mean squat when they tip it off.

While I don't agree with the "cake walk" talk on our path, Maryland and Mizzou are good. But Gottlieb's always skewed remarks about Memphis need calling out (in fact they were, by his own peers), "Mizzou's defense can cause.....fits", but you have to score points to set up your defense to cause anything. Uh, Memphis has a pretty good defense.